Herbert and Wilma file a joint return, so they’re treated as one taxpayer for purposes of the passive activity rules. The same owner (Herbert and Wilma) owns both Healthy Food and Plum Tower with the same ownership interest (100% in each). If the grouping forms an appropriate economic unit, as discussed earlier, Herbert and Wilma can group Plum Tower's grocery store rental and Healthy Food's grocery business into a single trade or business activity.

Hardy struggled to find space at the hospitals to conduct his procedures. Due to this difficulty, Hardy considered opening his own surgery center. He purchased land and developed plans to build this surgery center; however, before construction started, MBJ representatives approached Hardy to ask him about becoming a member. Mr. Hardy concluded that becoming a member/manager of an established surgery center was a better business decision than building his own surgery center due to the cost of construction, staffing, certifying, and operating the center.


Ask yourself how many hours a week do you spend sitting in silence, coming up with an idea and working on your idea? We’re so busy with our jobs that our childhood creativity sadly vanishes at some point in our lives. There are food bloggers who clear over $15,000 a month. There are lifestyle bloggers who make over $10,000 a month while living in Thailand. And there are even personal finance bloggers who’ve sold their sites for multi-millions.
Another way to obtain real estate exposure in your portfolio is through the purchase of Real Estate Investment Trusts or REITs.  A REIT is a company that owns or finances income- producing real estate.  REITs are usually structured as a mutual fund so you can purchase REITs on major stock exchanges and offer several benefits such as real estate exposure, diversification, low correlation with financial assets, and potentially higher income than regular equities.

Passive activity income often gets very different tax treatment from the ordinary income that people have. In particular, passive losses are typically deductible only against passive income, and you're not able to claim excess passive losses immediately, instead having to carry them forward. It's therefore vital to understand the tax rules surrounding passive activity income in order to assess investments in passive activities correctly.
Passive income is income you can earn without actually exerting yourself in a job. The idea of passive income rose in the early 1900s with the rise of income investing. Back then, Americans didn’t have the social protections they enjoy now (social security and Medicare for example). You may take your retirement plan for granted, but before these policies were enacted, the majority of the elderly working class lived in poverty.

Given the growth in the sharing economy, your junk can start to pay for itself. For example, if you have some awesome vintage furniture inherited from your grandmother sitting in a storage unit, you can rent this out to photographers for their “styled shoots” which are becoming all the rage. If your furniture is more modern but you still can’t bear to get rid of it – perhaps a home stager will be interested.
In this economy, it seems like more and more of us are looking for a way to earn passive income. Whether we need to pay off credit card debt or just need some extra cash, passive income could come in handy. But what is passive income exactly? Depending on who you ask, it may not be as “passive” as you think. Let’s take a look at what it is and the top ways to make it.
Peer-to-Peer Lending: Earn up to 10% in returns by lending individuals, organizations and small companies who don't qualify for traditional financing through peer-to-peer lending platforms like Lending Club. You can lend $100, $1,000, or more to borrowers who meet lending platform financial standards. Like a bank, you'll earn interest on the loan - often at higher returns than banks usually get.
Next, make sure to know the difference between “Top Grossing” and “Top Paid”. They are both very different rankings. “Top Grossing” is what you use to study what is making the most money. “Top Paid” is more so for trending. More downloads doesn’t necessarily mean more revenue. Personally, I study both. However, “Top Grossing” is better at giving you an idea of revenue potential.
Rentals, just like stocks, throw off cash. With rentals we call that cash “rent”, and with stocks we call it dividends. A significant difference however is that the S&P 500 has appreciated at ~6% per year (above inflation) for the last 100 years…..Real Estate has had almost 0 growth above inflation. So are rents higher than dividends? Maybe, maybe not. But unless you got one heck of a deal, the delta in rent over dividends will have a very tough time making up for the 6% per year difference in appreciation.
Virtual assistants can do anything that doesn’t require a physical presence: Scheduling appointments, making calls, sending emails, creating and processing invoices and general project management can all be done virtually. And tasks beyond administrative work are possible, too: Virtual assistants can be trained for customer prospecting and other key business operations. In short, it’s worth learning how to use their talents to your benefit.
One of the things I'm surprised your article doesn't mention is the tax advantages of this type of investment. The depreciation and rehab costs (purchasing distressed properties) can be huge deductions to ones income taxes, which none of the others have. Then, along with the appreciation of real estate, this passive income investment outperforms the notion of maxing out my 401k as well.
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A good portion of my stock allocation is in growth stocks and structured notes that pay no dividends. The dividend income that comes from stocks is primarily from S&P 500 index exchange-traded funds. Although this is a passive-income report, as I'm still relatively young I'm more interested in building a large financial nut through principal appreciation rather than through dividend investing. As an entrepreneur, I can't help but have a growth mindset.
Have you developed a particular brand or system that others can benefit from?  The options here vary quite a bit.  For example the rock band Def Leppard is able to license their brand because of their massive success.  Or look at a college sports franchise like the UW Badgers, who have created an amazing brand around a great sports team (Go Badgers!), everything from t-shirts to coffee mugs.  All of these are potential sources of passive income, if you are the one that has created the brand or process of course!
The more I deal with ungrateful patients and have to be away from my family due to work, the more I become a huge fan of passive income. Every 6 months when I get a check for my UpToDate sections I worked on 4-5 years ago that only require periodic minor updates, I’m always reminded how nice passive income is. Rental properties are great too, but I completely agree that you must do your homework. There are a lot of bad rental properties that will not only fail to provide passive income, but can cost a great deal out of your own pocket.
Investing in real estate has been around for ages.  Whether you are looking to buy your first duplex or getting into a large commercial property, rental properties can provide passive income through rents with some very appealing tax benefits.  This method can be harder to get started with given the initial capital needed in most cases, but is certainly a great way to generate passive income.
Those who don't meet this test can qualify for a limited $25,000 allowance for losses if they qualify as an active participant. Active participation requires only limited activities, such as approving new tenants, setting rental terms, and approving payouts. If you qualify, you can then take up to that limited amount of loss each year, carrying over any excess losses until you generate rental income to offset it.

What are your thoughts on an Immediate Annuity as a passive income vehicle? I suppose it’s not a great investment since you never get your principal back, but the risk is zero and the cash flow is fairly good, approaching 6% currently. And, since you are guaranteed payments for life, you may not care that you never see your principal again anyway since you’ll be dead!


Unearned income is not subject to payroll taxes. This is good news! However unearned income sources are included in your calculation of Adjusted Gross Income (AGI) for federal income tax purposes. You can find your AGI on line 37 of your 1040 tax form. Most unearned income such as interest income from CDs or savings accounts, IRA withdrawals, and pension payments are taxed at your marginal tax rate. However, certain types of unearned income, such as capital gains and qualified dividends are taxed at a lower rate.
Real estate investments generally are considered passive income – unlike income from a job, which is considered active – because revenue is generated from the money you invested rather than from the work that you do. You have to pay taxes on your income regardless of whether it's active or passive. Money earned from real estate investing is reported on the Schedule E form and gets carried forward to line 17 of your 1040 tax return. It's then included with your other income and is subject to regular taxes.
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Our favorite platform for this is RealtyMogul because you get the flexibility to invest as little as $1,000, but can also participate in REITs and private placements – typically not offered to the public. Investors can fund real estate loans to gain passive income or buy an equity share in a property for potential appreciation. Their platform is open to both accredited and non-accredited investors.
If you inherited property from a decedent who died in 2010, special rules may apply if the executor of the estate files Form 8939, Allocation of Increase in Basis for Property Acquired From a Decedent. For more information, see Pub. 4895, Tax Treatment of Property Acquired from a Decedent Dying in 2010, which is available at IRS.gov/pub/irs-prior/p4895--2011.pdf.
The activity is a personal service activity in which you materially participated for any 3 (whether or not consecutive) preceding tax years. An activity is a personal service activity if it involves the performance of personal services in the fields of health (including veterinary services), law, engineering, architecture, accounting, actuarial science, performing arts, consulting, or any other trade or business in which capital isn’t a material income-producing factor.
Income from an oil or gas property if you treated any loss from a working interest in the property for any tax year beginning after 1986 as a nonpassive loss, as discussed in item (2) under Activities That Aren’t Passive Activities , earlier. This also applies to income from other oil and gas property the basis of which is determined wholly or partly by the basis of the property in the preceding sentence.
We have collected passive incomes from several brands including independently published, stephen tracey, 4 hour work day,4 hour work week kindle,passive income generation,passive income top 7 ways to make $500-$10k a month in 70 days, amazon and createspace independent publishing platform specific to your daily usage . Our selection of passive incomes has a minimum price of value $10.00 and a maximum price of value $15.38. Pick the one you want among the presented or you may blindly pick the first option.
Secondly – and this is just quibbling – I’d change that risk score. The risk of private equity is incredibly high and should be considerably riskier than bonds! You are providing a typically very large amount of capital to one business that you agree to have no control over, and the success or failure of that business over a locked, predefined term determines your return. And in the few deals I’ve negotiated for clients, my experience has been that there are often management fees, performance fees, etc. that may cut into your potential gains, anyway. You’re putting a lot of eggs in one basket, and promising an omelet or two to the management no matter what. You really need to be confident that you found the next Uber before you take this giant risk!
This publication discusses two sets of rules that may limit the amount of your deductible loss from a trade, business, rental, or other income-producing activity. The first part of the publication discusses the passive activity rules. The second part discusses the at-risk rules. However, when you figure your allowable losses from any activity, you must apply the at-risk rules before the passive activity rules.
There are basically three types of income: earned, portfolio, and passive. When it comes to filing your tax return, each of these types of income are taxed differently. Therefore, it is worth understanding the difference between the three to minimize your tax burden. Below are the three types of income, how they are categorized, and the tax implications for each.
Are you thinking about adding real estate to your portfolio but do not know where to begin or what the tax implications are?  This article will go through the different types of investments available – direct ownership, REITs and crowdfunding/syndications – and what impact it may have on your tax situation.  Let’s get started – adding real estate to your portfolio is a great way to add diversification and potentially create another income stream in your working years and retirement.
Generally, any gain or loss on the disposition of a partnership interest must be allocated to each trade or business, rental, or investment activity in which the partnership owns an interest. If you dispose of your entire interest in a partnership, the passive activity losses from the partnership that haven’t been allowed generally are allowed in full. They also will be allowed if the partnership (other than a PTP) disposes of all the property used in that passive activity.
5. Make sure you are properly diversified. Capital preservation is underrated. We saw a lost decade for tech stocks between 2000 and 2010 after the first dot-com bubble burst. It actually took 13 years for Nasdaq investors to get back to even. Investors in the Borsa Istanbul stock market index just gave up 10 years' worth of gains after they saw a plunge in their currency, partially due to increased tariffs by the US and a lack of confidence in the government. Your passive income needs to be properly diversified in order to take the hits.
Anthony, nice setup! To your question about the rental mortgages, you haven’t said what interest rate you are paying. As a start, if you are paying more than the risk free rate (Treasury bills) which you probably are, then a true apples to apples comparison would be yes, pay off the mortgage. But, if you are comfortable taking more risk, you have other options to invest in which you *hope* will yield you more over the coming years. You also didn’t say whether the rentals generate net income and if so, how much? What is the implied rate of return on the equity you have invested in them? If you pay the mortgages off, you’ll have even more equity tied up, will the extra net income make that worthwhile? Maybe you should use the money to buy more rentals instead, if purchase opportunities still exist in your town. … this is less of an answer than a framework to analyze the decision, hope it is helpful.
Portfolio income. This includes interest, dividends, annuities, and royalties not derived in the ordinary course of a trade or business. It includes gain or loss from the disposition of property that produces these types of income or that’s held for investment. The exclusion for portfolio income doesn’t apply to self-charged interest treated as passive activity income. For more information on self-charged interest, see Self-charged interest , earlier.
The SBD provides a low rate of corporate tax on the first $500,000 (known as the “SDB limit”) of active business income annually. Business owners and incorporated professionals who don’t need to pay out corporate earnings to fund their personal lifestyles are able to enjoy a significant tax deferral of up to 41 per cent by simply leaving funds in their CCPC and investing them.
Similar to making a website or blog, but more passive, is creating an online course. If you have a specific skill you know you can teach and that others want to learn, you can easily create an online course. Sites like Udemy can help you do this. It requires some work to make it, but after that, users simply need to sign up for the course and pay a fee.
We are going to start with 1.5 years of all spending needs in cash. We will draw 1800 to 1900 per month. We will add to this from the index funds by taking a portion of the gains in good years to supplement. This is the total return portion of the equation. Obviously, if stocks decrease drastically over a 5 year period, then I would have to reload by selling some of the ETF holdings.
The real value of a building lies in the tenant. If you’re the tenant and you’re a good tenant, you might as well be the owner, otherwise, you’re giving that benefit away to someone else. A few years back we bought most of our buildings from other owners after renting from them for many years. Our approach to the building owners was, “We want to own our own offices, we are willing to pay you a fair price for the building, but if you won’t sell, we’ll buy somewhere else and move. 4/5 sold to us, the one that wouldn’t sell, we decided to buy a new office building and moved. Owning your own office is typically a very safe and very good investment if bought at a fair market value and assuming you are planning on staying put at least 5+ years. If you are trying to buy the office from your current landlord, I think a fair price is somewhere between the value of a vacant office building and the value of a stable physician occupied office with a long-term lease.
There was a time when CDs would produce a respectable 4%+ yield. Nowadays, you’ll be lucky to find a 5-7 year CD that provides anything above 2.5% The great thing about CDs is that there are no income or net worth minimums to invest, unlike many alternative investments, which require investors to be accredited. Anybody can go to their local bank and open up a CD of their desired duration. Furthermore, a CD is FDIC insured for up to $250,000 per individual, and $500,000 per joint account.
Thanks for asking. https://passiveincomemd.com/what-is-passive-income/ gives a good summary of the definition I use. But in brief, it’s income that isn’t proportional to the time you physically put into acquiring it. It doesn’t mean it’s not without work or effort. It’s just that most of the work is done up front and it continues to pay off long after that initial effort. Real estate fits into that box. There’s definitely a spectrum but compared to what we do as doctors, where our compensation is directly linked to our time, most of these things are quite passive.

If you don’t want to write the book yourself, you can also hire a ghostwriter through various online sites like Upwork, Freelancer.com etc. writing is the best passive income ideas for 2018. See my Kindle Direct Publishing Portfolio HERE. Selling your eBook can be a great way to earn passive income forever once it’s released. You need to take significant time to make sure it is high-quality. Also, you will need to spend time promoting your eBook.
Since David may never be coming back to this site, If anyone other than David can point me in the right direction, Id greatly appreciate it. I live in Chicago, and I need to buy a quality rental to hold long term somewhere but I have no idea where, and I really don’t want to buy in Chicago. Chicago is insanely corrupt and in HUGE debt. I cant leave Chicago in the near term, I take care of an aging parent, and if I left, my salary would drop by 50%. Id still like to diversify into a rental property.. but I feel that if I just call up a stranger, they’d attempt to sell me their best pig with lipstick, and pressure me to jump on the deal before someone else ‘stole’ it. I have no problem hiring a property inspector from a different city, but don’t want to waste hundreds of dollars if the agent is steering us towards crap property after crap property. I’m looking for broad advice. Any constructive reply appreciated. Thanks guys.
Another thing that belongs firmly at the top of passive income ideas lists is affiliate marketing, where you earn a commission for each product or service that you recommend. My new focus these days is on Amazon affiliate websites. The idea is that you talk about, or review products that you can find on Amazon. People visit your website, click on some of your Amazon affiliate links, buy a product on Amazon and you get a commission for any sales, not only for that specific product but for anything they buy within a 24-hour period.

Income from an oil or gas property if you treated any loss from a working interest in the property for any tax year beginning after 1986 as a nonpassive loss, as discussed in item (2) under Activities That Aren’t Passive Activities , earlier. This also applies to income from other oil and gas property the basis of which is determined wholly or partly by the basis of the property in the preceding sentence.


But two months later, with the economy slowing down after the financial crisis, his firm began laying people off, and Flynn was informed that after his current projects were finished, he also would be out of a job. At the same time, he couldn’t help but notice that in the LEED exam forums he had frequented, people were referring to him as an expert and directing questions his way. He began to think he might capitalize on that.
In this economy, it seems like more and more of us are looking for a way to earn passive income. Whether we need to pay off credit card debt or just need some extra cash, passive income could come in handy. But what is passive income exactly? Depending on who you ask, it may not be as “passive” as you think. Let’s take a look at what it is and the top ways to make it.
Interest never sleeps nor sickens nor dies; it never goes to the hospital; it works on Sundays and holidays; it never takes a vacation; it never visits nor travels; it takes no pleasure; it is never laid off work nor discharged from employment; it never works on reduced hours; it never has short crops nor droughts; it never pays taxes; it buys no food; it wears no clothes; it is unhoused and without home and so has no repairs, no replacements, no shingling, plumbing, painting, or whitewashing; it has neither wife, children, father, mother, nor kinfolk to watch over and care for; it has no expense of living; it has neither weddings nor births nor deaths; it has no love, no sympathy; it is as hard and soulless as a granite cliff. Once in debt, interest is your companion every minute of the day and night; you cannot shun it or slip away from it; you cannot dismiss it; it yields neither to entreaties, demands, or orders; and whenever you get in its way or cross its course or fail to meet its demands, it crushes you.
Who cares, especially when very conservatively, the ultimate passive income includes a six digit or more base lease, plus an estimated additional six digits or more for rate increases and another six digits for more for various smaller and one bigger technology increase at 25 years. All four (base, rate, smaller and mega technology increases) combined, certainly could yield much more depending upon inflation, rate increases and technology increases?
One way to make passive income with more involvement is to write and publish an e-book. Got some knowledge or a great story idea you’ve been itching to share? Put it all in a book and sell it online! If all goes well, you could be raking in the royalties for years to come. Of course, there is some considerable work involved in writing, publishing and selling a book. However the advent of self-publishing e-books makes this a considerably easier option than it used to be.
Squidoo (which later became HubPages) is how I got my start with making money online and over the years, I’ve probably earned $5000+. It’s great for those who don’t want to bother figuring out the self-hosted website thing. HubPages’ drag and drop platform is ridiculously easy to use. What isn’t easy, however, is getting past their spam filters. My most certainly not-spammy Hubs have gotten un-featured and it seems that there’s nothing I can really do about it. I’ve given up on HubPages, but perhaps you’ll figure out the secret recipe and have more success than I?
It all comes down to your goals. There is nothing wrong with flipping, wholesaling or landlording, as long as you are understanding of the fact, and okay with the fact, that you are working for your money. I personally have no desire to work in those capacities, so I stick with passive income investments. I did, however, start a business in order to fund those investments. I started a business in lieu of using flipping or wholesaling to earn capital. You can do whatever you want, but at least be clear on what it is you are actually doing, i.e. working for your money versus investing your money.
Those who don't meet this test can qualify for a limited $25,000 allowance for losses if they qualify as an active participant. Active participation requires only limited activities, such as approving new tenants, setting rental terms, and approving payouts. If you qualify, you can then take up to that limited amount of loss each year, carrying over any excess losses until you generate rental income to offset it.

It's a little awkward, so we'll get straight to the point: This Thursday we humbly ask you to defend Wikipedia's independence. We depend on donations averaging about $16.36, and only ask you for one gift a year. But 98% of our readers in the U.S. are not responding to our messages, and time is running out to help in 2018. If everyone reading this gave $2.75, we could keep Wikipedia thriving for years to come. The price of your Thursday coffee is all we need. People warned us not to make Wikipedia a non-profit. But if Wikipedia were commercial, it would be a great loss. Wikipedia unites all of us who love knowledge: contributors, readers and the donors who keep us thriving. The heart of Wikipedia is a community of people working to bring you unlimited access to reliable information. Please take a minute to keep Wikipedia growing. Thank you.

For 2017, passive income that is taxed as ordinary income will be taxed in the 2017 tax brackets, and so the income tax rates range from 10 to 39.6 percent depending on your annual income. Long-term capital gains and qualified dividends are taxed at zero, 15 and 20 percent for 2017, but the brackets are different. So you can earn up to $37,950 in the 2017 tax year without paying taxes on these gains; if you earn between $37,950 and $418,400, the gains are taxed at 15 percent; and if you earn more than $418,400, your gains are taxed at 20 percent.
The real value of a building lies in the tenant. If you’re the tenant and you’re a good tenant, you might as well be the owner, otherwise, you’re giving that benefit away to someone else. A few years back we bought most of our buildings from other owners after renting from them for many years. Our approach to the building owners was, “We want to own our own offices, we are willing to pay you a fair price for the building, but if you won’t sell, we’ll buy somewhere else and move. 4/5 sold to us, the one that wouldn’t sell, we decided to buy a new office building and moved. Owning your own office is typically a very safe and very good investment if bought at a fair market value and assuming you are planning on staying put at least 5+ years. If you are trying to buy the office from your current landlord, I think a fair price is somewhere between the value of a vacant office building and the value of a stable physician occupied office with a long-term lease.

According to Uncle Sam, you need to be "materially involved" in an enterprise to earn active income. With passive income, it's just the opposite, as the IRS deems you to be earning passive income if you're not materially involved with a profit-making enterprise. By and large, expect income to be taxable if you are engaged in a passive income enterprise. You will need to report earnings to the IRS.
Finance was concerned that notwithstanding protective provisions in the law to safe guard against this tax deferral, professionals and other groups were using corporations exclusively for the purposes of gaining this benefit. This platform of concern for politically correct fairness and equity however did not address the fact that the after-tax profits of a corporation distributed to the individual are subject to a second layer of tax when the individual is paid a dividend from the company. As such, when Ms. Shareholder ultimately receives a dividend from the CCPC of its retained earnings, she will have paid a combined corporate and personal tax of approximately 56%, which is about 3 points higher than the top marginal rate applicable to individuals. The objective of the second layer of tax is to achieve what historically was called the principle of integration.

To the uninformed, these varying tax rates initially look unfair. What many people don’t understand is the big difference between “ordinary income” (from wages, a salary, short-term capital gains and interest) and “passive income” (from stock dividends and long-term capital gains). The federal government taxes ordinary income at up to 35 percent and passive income at 15 percent.
Generally, any gain or loss on the disposition of a partnership interest must be allocated to each trade or business, rental, or investment activity in which the partnership owns an interest. If you dispose of your entire interest in a partnership, the passive activity losses from the partnership that haven’t been allowed generally are allowed in full. They also will be allowed if the partnership (other than a PTP) disposes of all the property used in that passive activity.
You pay two main types of taxes on earned income, Social Security/Medicare taxes (called FICA, OASDI, or payroll taxes), and federal and state income taxes. The payroll taxes that are automatically taken out of your paycheck have two components. First, 12.4 percent of earned income is paid to Social Security. Your employer pays half of this tax, and you pay half. If you are self-employed you'll pay the full 12.4 percent, however, the "employer" portion of 6.2 percent is generally tax deductible.
Given the growth in the sharing economy, your junk can start to pay for itself. For example, if you have some awesome vintage furniture inherited from your grandmother sitting in a storage unit, you can rent this out to photographers for their “styled shoots” which are becoming all the rage. If your furniture is more modern but you still can’t bear to get rid of it – perhaps a home stager will be interested.
Under the new rules, the active income a business is allowed to claim at the small business amount is tied to the business’ passive income. Businesses with less than $50,000 in annual passive income can claim the full $500,000 at the 9% small business rate. The amount eligible for the small business rate shrinks by $5 for every $1 over $50,000 that a business makes in passive income, until it eventually reaches zero.

I own several rental properties in the mid west and I live in CA. I have never even seen them in person. With good property management in place (not easy to find but possible) it is definitely possible to own cash flowing properties across the country. Not for everyone and not without it’s drawbacks, but it seems to be working for me so far. I’m happy to answer any questions about my experience with this type of investing.


It may also be possible to stagger dispositions of investments between calendar years. For example, if there will already be more than $150,000 of AAII in one year, consider triggering additional capital gains in that year, rather than the next, if that might reduce AAII below the threshold in the next year. Conversely, you may wish to trigger capital gains or losses in a specific year because capital losses cannot be carried forward to a future year for purposes of reducing AAII. As a result, you may wish to realize capital losses and gains in the same taxation year.
Thanks for writing this Mr. Samurai. I just got over the student loan hump but I feel pretty good about it at 27 having a graduate degree and being 100% debt free. Now that I’m on the other side it is good for my brain to absorb some of your knowledge regarding passive income investments. I love gleaning wisdom from older folks who have been there and done that. Mentors rock!
Good suggestions. I have many of these. One word about the “app” idea. I had a great idea related to personal taxes that I tried to get off the ground with my accountant as a partner. I would say it’s difficult to do this unless you have a coder on your team. Hiring someone is not really viable financially unless the app is simple. When we finally got the quote for a coder to write what we wanted (and after doing lots of mock ups ourselves and getting a demo for investors) the estimate was about 750k just to really get started.
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